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Wiring control panel apritech mach2 230v
#11
(07-11-2014, 09:22 AM)thm Wrote: Thanks for that, just making sure. Hopefully do it tomorrow if weather is good. I also got an outside isolater switch for power to the panel. It has L1, L2 and L3 inputs and T1, T2 and T3 outputs for 220v. Would you be able to tell me where Live/Neutral/earth goes?
Thanks.
Brian,

Sav, already answered that: 1 is Live and 2 is Neutral (and even if you connect them the other way round no harm will be done to your automation - this is just a matter of proper installation).
Reply
#12
Good morning Brian.
Hopefully you have finished the installation by now.

Anyway, what you describe looks like a 3 phase isolator. L1, L2, L3 (or R, S, T) are the supply-side contacts and T1, T2, T3 (or U, V, W) are the load-side contacts.

Although overkill, if it is a mechanical isolator switch, it is still usable for your installation.

- You have to connect your Live/Phase wire to L1 and also connect T1 to the #1 contact of your control board. L2, L3, T2 and T3 are not used.
- The other wire for powering your control board (Neutral - to contact #2) must be connected directly to the control board - not through the isolator.
- The Neutral/Protective earth wire of your power supply is connected directly to the earthing wires (green & yellow colored) of the motors - not through the isolator.

(15-11-2014, 06:37 PM)brian Wrote:
(07-11-2014, 09:22 AM)thm Wrote: Thanks for that, just making sure. Hopefully do it tomorrow if weather is good. I also got an outside isolater switch for power to the panel. It has L1, L2 and L3 inputs and T1, T2 and T3 outputs for 220v. Would you be able to tell me where Live/Neutral/earth goes?
Thanks.
Brian,

Sav, already answered that: 1 is Live and 2 is Neutral (and even if you connect them the other way round no harm will be done to your automation - this is just a matter of proper installation).
Reply
#13
(17-11-2014, 09:46 AM)thm Wrote: Hi,

Will be finished he gates tomorrow, just to wire keypad and programme it. All is working grand and wouldn't have being as easy without the help on this forum. So just wanted to say thanks to all for the help i making it that much easier and will let you know when I get it completed tomorrow.

Thanks Again.

Good morning Brian.
Hopefully you have finished the installation by now.

Anyway, what you describe looks like a 3 phase isolator. L1, L2, L3 (or R, S, T) are the supply-side contacts and T1, T2, T3 (or U, V, W) are the load-side contacts.

Although overkill, if it is a mechanical isolator switch, it is still usable for your installation.

- You have to connect your Live/Phase wire to L1 and also connect T1 to the #1 contact of your control board. L2, L3, T2 and T3 are not used.
- The other wire for powering your control board (Neutral - to contact #2) must be connected directly to the control board - not through the isolator.
- The Neutral/Protective earth wire of your power supply is connected directly to the earthing wires (green & yellow colored) of the motors - not through the isolator.

(15-11-2014, 06:37 PM)brian Wrote:
(07-11-2014, 09:22 AM)thm Wrote: Thanks for that, just making sure. Hopefully do it tomorrow if weather is good. I also got an outside isolater switch for power to the panel. It has L1, L2 and L3 inputs and T1, T2 and T3 outputs for 220v. Would you be able to tell me where Live/Neutral/earth goes?
Thanks.
Brian,

Sav, already answered that: 1 is Live and 2 is Neutral (and even if you connect them the other way round no harm will be done to your automation - this is just a matter of proper installation).
Reply
#14
(30-10-2014, 11:02 PM)brian Wrote:
(30-10-2014, 11:44 AM)thm Wrote: Have all working but can't get the button on the internal handset in the house to open the gates, when I need to let someone in??

Any help???

Thanks,

Brian.

Appreciate all the help, going to do this ate the weekend, will let you know how I get on.

Brian,

there is a table in the installation manual that lists the various contacts.

Some of them are marked as NC (that means Normally Closed or that the respective contacts should make contact) and are generally safety devices like photocells. There should be a piece of wire (jumper) between the two contacts of each NC pair to short-circuit them, unless of course you have actually installed the respective safety device (which you should leave for the end of the installation).

The ones marked NO are for movement command devices (pushbuttons etc). For example, to command the gate to move (open or close) you should briefly (in the order of 1 sec) make contact between #23 and #24.

The NC and NO are "dry contacts" meaning you should not provide your own voltage to them or you may damage the board. The board itself monitors those contacts and can tell when there is circuit continuity or not (when contact is made or broken) and uses their state as a signal for how to behave. This is especially important in case of intercoms and access-control devices that may provide their own voltage (say 12VDC) as output. In these cases, one has to use an intermediate relay that gets activated by the voltage provided by the intercom and, in turn, closes the dry contact of the board.

#23 and #24 are the contacts you are looking for connecting your intercom but, as described above, the connection should be voltage-free.

Keep in mind that commanding a gate without having visual contact with it may be hazardous: for example, you might accidentally command it to close when already open. The typical solution is to activate automatic closing (which makes proper installation of safety photocells all the more important) and program the pushbutton command as an OPEN-only command. The later, unfortunately, doesn't look like it is supported by your control board, so you should set DIP-switch 2 to ON (activate residential function) and either install the pushbutton/intercom next to a window overlooking the gate or install a camera watching the gate area.

Remotes may be per-programmed or not. In either case, the manual describes the procedure to memorize them to the board, so it shouldn't bother you too much.
Reply
#15
Good to know you made it that far.

First you have to test that when you make contact between contacts #23 and #24 the gate opens/closes. For this you will need just a piece of wire with which you will briefly (no more than 1 sec) connect both contacts. This is to make sure that everything is fine with the board. Obviously, when you perform that test, you will want to keep clear of the gate as it should start moving. These contacts have their own, very low, test voltage which you will not even feel if you touch the wire (and, unlike other contacts on the board, will not shock you).

The next step is making sure that the output of your "internal handset" is voltage-free. If this is specifically mentioned in the manual of the handset, then you should be fine but, still, testing for that yourself is always the suggested action. For this you will need a multimeter (even the cheapest ones will do - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU for a crash course in how one is used) to measure the voltage between the 2 output wires of the handset when the button is pressed (you are looking for low DC voltage but be sure to also test for AC - one never knows what to expect from random 2 wires, so treat them as potentially live wires and be careful). If you measure any voltage (DC or AC), when you press the handset button, DO NOT connect these wires straight to the board as you may damage it. If you measure no voltage, go on with testing for contact. Most multimeters have a function for circuit continuity testing. You have to use this for verifying that the circuit between the 2 ends of your wires is normally open and only closes when you press the button.

If you have no voltage (ie dry contacts) and contact is made when you press the button, you should be fine with connecting those 2 wires to #23 and #24 (in whatever order).

If, however, you see some voltage, you will have to purchase and install a relay, matching that voltage, in order to get the voltage-free output you need. This is easy, doesn't cost much and, in fact, is quite common in such installations.

PS: If you hire an electrician to connect the handset to your control board, do not assume he knows about all the requirements. Be sure to point out that the gate board needs a voltage-free (dry contact), pushbutton-like (not maintained) input.
Reply
#16
(24-11-2014, 08:26 AM)thm Wrote: Thanks for the help, will check this out and let you know how I get on.
Thanks again.

Good to know you made it that far.

First you have to test that when you make contact between contacts #23 and #24 the gate opens/closes. For this you will need just a piece of wire with which you will briefly (no more than 1 sec) connect both contacts. This is to make sure that everything is fine with the board. Obviously, when you perform that test, you will want to keep clear of the gate as it should start moving. These contacts have their own, very low, test voltage which you will not even feel if you touch the wire (and, unlike other contacts on the board, will not shock you).

The next step is making sure that the output of your "internal handset" is voltage-free. If this is specifically mentioned in the manual of the handset, then you should be fine but, still, testing for that yourself is always the suggested action. For this you will need a multimeter (even the cheapest ones will do - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU for a crash course in how one is used) to measure the voltage between the 2 output wires of the handset when the button is pressed (you are looking for low DC voltage but be sure to also test for AC - one never knows what to expect from random 2 wires, so treat them as potentially live wires and be careful). If you measure any voltage (DC or AC), when you press the handset button, DO NOT connect these wires straight to the board as you may damage it. If you measure no voltage, go on with testing for contact. Most multimeters have a function for circuit continuity testing. You have to use this for verifying that the circuit between the 2 ends of your wires is normally open and only closes when you press the button.

If you have no voltage (ie dry contacts) and contact is made when you press the button, you should be fine with connecting those 2 wires to #23 and #24 (in whatever order).

If, however, you see some voltage, you will have to purchase and install a relay, matching that voltage, in order to get the voltage-free output you need. This is easy, doesn't cost much and, in fact, is quite common in such installations.

PS: If you hire an electrician to connect the handset to your control board, do not assume he knows about all the requirements. Be sure to point out that the gate board needs a voltage-free (dry contact), pushbutton-like (not maintained) input.
Reply
#17
(24-11-2014, 08:26 AM)thm Wrote: Connected the botton(2 wires) from intercom inside the house to 23 and 24 and all seems to be working fine?
:-)
Good to know you made it that far.

First you have to test that when you make contact between contacts #23 and #24 the gate opens/closes. For this you will need just a piece of wire with which you will briefly (no more than 1 sec) connect both contacts. This is to make sure that everything is fine with the board. Obviously, when you perform that test, you will want to keep clear of the gate as it should start moving. These contacts have their own, very low, test voltage which you will not even feel if you touch the wire (and, unlike other contacts on the board, will not shock you).

The next step is making sure that the output of your "internal handset" is voltage-free. If this is specifically mentioned in the manual of the handset, then you should be fine but, still, testing for that yourself is always the suggested action. For this you will need a multimeter (even the cheapest ones will do - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU for a crash course in how one is used) to measure the voltage between the 2 output wires of the handset when the button is pressed (you are looking for low DC voltage but be sure to also test for AC - one never knows what to expect from random 2 wires, so treat them as potentially live wires and be careful). If you measure any voltage (DC or AC), when you press the handset button, DO NOT connect these wires straight to the board as you may damage it. If you measure no voltage, go on with testing for contact. Most multimeters have a function for circuit continuity testing. You have to use this for verifying that the circuit between the 2 ends of your wires is normally open and only closes when you press the button.

If you have no voltage (ie dry contacts) and contact is made when you press the button, you should be fine with connecting those 2 wires to #23 and #24 (in whatever order).

If, however, you see some voltage, you will have to purchase and install a relay, matching that voltage, in order to get the voltage-free output you need. This is easy, doesn't cost much and, in fact, is quite common in such installations.

PS: If you hire an electrician to connect the handset to your control board, do not assume he knows about all the requirements. Be sure to point out that the gate board needs a voltage-free (dry contact), pushbutton-like (not maintained) input.
Reply
#18
(28-11-2014, 05:03 PM)brian Wrote:
(24-11-2014, 08:26 AM)thm Wrote: I have everything working now, I only programmed them to open and close. Didn't do the slow down on closing yet, will do it the weekend. I noticed that after opening and closing a couple of times, they get out of sync? ie not opening fully or closing fully, varies?
Is this because the slow down is not programmed yet?
Also, if I put metal stops into the ground, is their a programme option, so gates will stop when they touch the metal stops? Or would it be best to leave them out?


I Connected the botton(2 wires) from intercom inside the house to 23 and 24 and all seems to be working fine?
:-)
Good to know you made it that far.

First you have to test that when you make contact between contacts #23 and #24 the gate opens/closes. For this you will need just a piece of wire with which you will briefly (no more than 1 sec) connect both contacts. This is to make sure that everything is fine with the board. Obviously, when you perform that test, you will want to keep clear of the gate as it should start moving. These contacts have their own, very low, test voltage which you will not even feel if you touch the wire (and, unlike other contacts on the board, will not shock you).

The next step is making sure that the output of your "internal handset" is voltage-free. If this is specifically mentioned in the manual of the handset, then you should be fine but, still, testing for that yourself is always the suggested action. For this you will need a multimeter (even the cheapest ones will do - see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bF3OyQ3HwfU for a crash course in how one is used) to measure the voltage between the 2 output wires of the handset when the button is pressed (you are looking for low DC voltage but be sure to also test for AC - one never knows what to expect from random 2 wires, so treat them as potentially live wires and be careful). If you measure any voltage (DC or AC), when you press the handset button, DO NOT connect these wires straight to the board as you may damage it. If you measure no voltage, go on with testing for contact. Most multimeters have a function for circuit continuity testing. You have to use this for verifying that the circuit between the 2 ends of your wires is normally open and only closes when you press the button.

If you have no voltage (ie dry contacts) and contact is made when you press the button, you should be fine with connecting those 2 wires to #23 and #24 (in whatever order).

If, however, you see some voltage, you will have to purchase and install a relay, matching that voltage, in order to get the voltage-free output you need. This is easy, doesn't cost much and, in fact, is quite common in such installations.

PS: If you hire an electrician to connect the handset to your control board, do not assume he knows about all the requirements. Be sure to point out that the gate board needs a voltage-free (dry contact), pushbutton-like (not maintained) input.
Reply
#19
Hi Brian.

They get out of sync because you haven't installed the mechanical stops (you need mechanical stops in both the fully open and the fully closed position of the gate).

The way most control boards for swing gates work is like a blind man using a stopwatch. The board knows nothing about the actual position of the gate leaf/leaves. When you program it, it is like instructing the blind man that, when you say "open the gate" he has to press button A for X seconds (ie duration of opening movement with normal speed) and then press button B for Y seconds (ie duration of opening movement with slow speed) etc.

Even if one programs the operating times with extreme precision, the exact length of the leaf travel is a bit random (it depends on what resistance it will encounter each time, if the wind is for or against the movement etc etc). If you don't have mechanical stops limiting the end-travel, even the slightest errors may accumulate and the result will be that the gate movement will be visibly out of sync.

The simple, standard solution is installing mechanical stops at the fully open and fully closed positions of the gate leafs to restrict movement AND, when programming the control board, adding a little extra operator working time. In this way, the gate leaf will reach the mechanical stop and will keep pressing against the stop for that little extra time (for normal gates it is usually 2-4 secs) before it stops.

In this way, it is almost impossible for the gate to get out of sync even if it is slightly delayed by some opposing strong wind or if we disengage the operator for manual movement and then re-engage it at a random position or if the power is cut while the gate is in an intermediate position (in this case, when power is restored, the control board has lost its clue on where the leaf is/leaves are).

Another benefit of having mechanical stops is that it protects the gate operators, when they are disengaged (when the manual release is activated). Without the stops you could, manually, get the leaf/leaves in a position where the operator(s) will exert little to no torque on it/them, making beginning of powered movement impossible. An even worse problem, when not having anything else to stop the opening movement of the gate, is that, if you slam open the gate, it will hammer the operator which may very well damage it (especially if the gate is heavy and/or wide).

You should not worry about the extra time the operators will be working at the end-of-travel: swing gate operators are designed with that in mind and will not be damaged however long they keep pushing a stopped leaf. However, you would like to keep this extra time in the few seconds range. One of the reasons is that the gate is not considered, by the control board, open or closed until the programmed time expires. Therefore if the gate is closed but the motor is still working, if you engage the closing photocells the gate will open again (for you "closed" means that the gate is at a certain position but for the control board "closed" means that a certain time has elapsed).

To recap, you MUST install mechanical stops at the fully open and fully closed positions of you gate leaf/leaves and add a little extra working time when programming the duration of the movements.

PS: most control boards for swing gate operator, in normal operation, either don't sense obstructions (resistance to movement indicated by a sudden increase in current through the motor or stop of travel indicated by an encoder) at all or don't sense them during the slow movement (close to end-of-travel) phase. Some control boards, use obstruction sensing only when in programming mode (in order to automatically discover where the mechanical stops are) but, in normal working mode, work as above.
Reply
#20
(04-12-2014, 08:45 AM)thm Wrote: Thanks for the information, it's a great help. I'll install the mechanical stops over the weekend and let them set into the ground.

I will then re-programme the gates as you said, giving an extra 2-4 seconds at the open and closed stops. I will also used the slow down in the programming aswell, so all should be fine.

When I got home today, i was told that the gates closed by themselves, twice? Is there a reason for them closing by themselves??

Thanks again for the help.

Hi Brian.

They get out of sync because you haven't installed the mechanical stops (you need mechanical stops in both the fully open and the fully closed position of the gate).

The way most control boards for swing gates work is like a blind man using a stopwatch. The board knows nothing about the actual position of the gate leaf/leaves. When you program it, it is like instructing the blind man that, when you say "open the gate" he has to press button A for X seconds (ie duration of opening movement with normal speed) and then press button B for Y seconds (ie duration of opening movement with slow speed) etc.

Even if one programs the operating times with extreme precision, the exact length of the leaf travel is a bit random (it depends on what resistance it will encounter each time, if the wind is for or against the movement etc etc). If you don't have mechanical stops limiting the end-travel, even the slightest errors may accumulate and the result will be that the gate movement will be visibly out of sync.

The simple, standard solution is installing mechanical stops at the fully open and fully closed positions of the gate leafs to restrict movement AND, when programming the control board, adding a little extra operator working time. In this way, the gate leaf will reach the mechanical stop and will keep pressing against the stop for that little extra time (for normal gates it is usually 2-4 secs) before it stops.

In this way, it is almost impossible for the gate to get out of sync even if it is slightly delayed by some opposing strong wind or if we disengage the operator for manual movement and then re-engage it at a random position or if the power is cut while the gate is in an intermediate position (in this case, when power is restored, the control board has lost its clue on where the leaf is/leaves are).

Another benefit of having mechanical stops is that it protects the gate operators, when they are disengaged (when the manual release is activated). Without the stops you could, manually, get the leaf/leaves in a position where the operator(s) will exert little to no torque on it/them, making beginning of powered movement impossible. An even worse problem, when not having anything else to stop the opening movement of the gate, is that, if you slam open the gate, it will hammer the operator which may very well damage it (especially if the gate is heavy and/or wide).

You should not worry about the extra time the operators will be working at the end-of-travel: swing gate operators are designed with that in mind and will not be damaged however long they keep pushing a stopped leaf. However, you would like to keep this extra time in the few seconds range. One of the reasons is that the gate is not considered, by the control board, open or closed until the programmed time expires. Therefore if the gate is closed but the motor is still working, if you engage the closing photocells the gate will open again (for you "closed" means that the gate is at a certain position but for the control board "closed" means that a certain time has elapsed).

To recap, you MUST install mechanical stops at the fully open and fully closed positions of you gate leaf/leaves and add a little extra working time when programming the duration of the movements.

PS: most control boards for swing gate operator, in normal operation, either don't sense obstructions (resistance to movement indicated by a sudden increase in current through the motor or stop of travel indicated by an encoder) at all or don't sense them during the slow movement (close to end-of-travel) phase. Some control boards, use obstruction sensing only when in programming mode (in order to automatically discover where the mechanical stops are) but, in normal working mode, work as above.
Reply


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